Guillaume Bonnet (BBA 09): ‘I Do Podcasts To Free Voices’

Psychoanalysis, queer male sexuality, life stories, etc.: Guillaume Bonnet (BBA 09) produces ‘intimate podcasts’ aimed at allowing people to express themselves freely and offer alternative narratives. This unique and open-hearted approach was awarded The Conversation’s Best Podcast Prize at the Paris Podcast Festival. Interview. 

ESSEC Alumni: How did you become an ‘intimate podcaster’? 
Guillaume Bonnet: Everything began with an end. After 10 years of therapy, I stopped my psychoanalysis. This decision, made against my therapist’s advice, left me with this question: how do you really know if it’s over, if it has ‘worked’ or not? I wanted to discuss this with other patients and analysts. The podcast format served as a pretext to initiate these discussions. That’s how Ma dernière séance de psychanalyse [My Last Psychoanalysis Session] came into being, which I worked on for around 2 years. 

 EA: What is the connection between this topic and that of queer male sexuality, which you are currently exploring?
G. Bonnet: From interview to interview, I began telling my own story along with my guests’. This sharing of experiences naturally led me to evoke my own homosexuality, a core aspect of my analysis. Here again, I felt the need to talk to people who had gone through similar issues and to compare our impressions. So I launched my other podcast, Comment devenir (sexuellement) épanoui [How to Become (Sexually) Fulfilled], which I now devote myself fully to. 

EA: What is this podcast about?
G. Bonnet: In each episode, a gay, bi or queer man describes the path of his sexuality, his practices, fantasies and attitude to rules and norms. These testimonies alternate with ‘hotline’ interviews where specialists offer their advice. I have to point out that I refuse to edit anything; what you hear is the raw, uncut version of what speakers said during the recording.

EA: Why this choice?
G. Bonnet: I feel it’s contradictory to edit when my whole approach is to free voices, to enable each person to express their truth, in their words. This podcast breaks a dual taboo. Firstly, the taboo around the sexual act in itself. It remains largely shrouded in the unsaid, a least outside of media, fiction and advertising representations, which are generally highly stereotypical. Then there’s the taboo surrounding the problems that can arise during the sexual act. People are rarely willing to talk about them, because our society exerts an enormous pressure to perform and enjoy. Yet I firmly believe that words can heal, a lesson learnt directly from psychoanalysis. It’s precisely by daring to say you are not sexually fulfilled, by putting words to it, by expressing it openly, that you can begin to find a solution.

EA: How do you explain this mechanism?
G. Bonnet: There’s nothing revolutionary in this; you can’t solve a problem that hasn’t been stated! The conversational aspect of the podcast adds to the power of the process, however. It’s both comforting and highly encouraging to hear someone say out loud what you barely dare to admit to yourself. You discover you are not alone, which helps to shake off the shame: you are not what some people call ‘abnormal’, a word that should be banned...From that point on, you feel more comfortable about speaking up in turn. In doing so, you will inspire other listeners, and so on. It’s a virtuous chain.

EA: Have you experienced this process yourself?
G. Bonnet: I have, and I continue to experience it. When I began the podcast, I was suffering from a number of sexual hangups, in particular from serious hypochondria with regard to sexually transmitted infections, to the point of experiencing panic attacks after relations, despite having taken no risks. And all this while I was working for Doctors Without Borders in another life...in other words I was well informed in health matters! But the psyche was overpowering rational thought. I began seeing sex therapists in an attempt to remedy things, but to no avail. The podcast was the gamechanger.  

EA: How? What did the interviews teach you?
G. Bonnet: Two key lessons emerged, which may seem paradoxical put side by side, but which actually proceed one from the other. On one hand, all paths are unique, and even contradict each other; what one guest enjoys, the next one doesn’t, and vice versa. There is no recipe for fulfilment. On the other hand, all these testimonies are characterised by the same issue: the obligation to position oneself in terms of norms. Norms which literally straitjacket and stifle bodies in a specific model which has no regard for their real needs and diversity.

EA: What are those norms?
G. Bonnet: The rules we all know, according to which sexuality is dirty, bad and shameful. We claim to have shaken off these beliefs, inherited from eras when sexuality was reserved for reproduction and religious morality structured all of society. Each time one of my guests describes an inhibition and we dissect it, we come back to this stranglehold. It lies at the source of certain listeners’ criticisms, the ones who define themselves as gay, and blame my podcast for upholding the cliché that homosexuals are ‘obsessed’ with ‘perverse’ practices and ‘over-consume’ sex...

EA: How do you react to these criticisms?
G. Bonnet: First of all, I chose to focus on sexuality but I don’t for one minute consider that a homosexual, bi, queer or trans person is defined by or limited to their sexual practices. These practices may form a part of your identity, in the same way other elements such as your nationality or geographical background do. The same can be said for heterosexuals! Secondly, I see this form of criticism simply as a variant of the societal imperative to maintain the silence around sexuality. We cannot escape this on the pretext that we have rejected the dominant model by openly declaring our homosexuality. We’ve heard it so often that we have taken it on board and it continues to catch up with us.  

EA: If this pressure for silence is so strong, it must be difficult for your guests to open up publicly. How do they experience this moment? 
G. Bonnet: Contrary to my guests, I have no anonymity, which adds a specific acuteness to the issue for me. And while this may surprise people given my activities, my secret garden is important to me! A world of compulsory transparency is not at all what I dream of; I share only a fraction of my experiences in my podcast. I don’t ask any more of my guests either, who generally stick to 2 or 3 themes. I strive to differentiate between chosen silence, which protects privacy, and endured silence which causes suffering and must be overcome. It’s a question of responsibility and ethics.

EA: In practical terms, how do you structure your interviews to maintain this balance?
G. Bonnet: Each interview is preceded by a compulsory pre-interview with a threefold aim: to define the topics we will raise during the discussion, to check the person will not panic in front of the microphone, and to assess their motivations. If a guest wants to tell their story just to help me with my project or because I asked them to, I say no thank you. I want them to do it for themselves, in their own interest. Out of principle firstly, but also because I work with my speaker’s energy; the quality of the interview will depend on their dynamic and engagement. This is why I also use this initial step to reassure them. Many guests are afraid they won’t be clear or eloquent enough, or worse still, they won’t have anything interesting to say. I tell them straight away they are wrong, because there’s one thing I have come to realise: it’s always interesting and always powerful.  

EA: What is your approach during the recording?
G. Bonnet: I don’t act simply as a journalist, just asking questions. I participate as I would in any discussion off the air. On the other hand, I am very careful not to judge, and if I feel I’m overstepping a line, I make sure to point out that I’m expressing a purely personal view, I’m open to debate and a change of opinion, or simply that everyone has a right to their difference. This is a decisive aspect which puts my guests and I on the same level and wins their trust. For example, if a guest reveals their problems with penetration, I react by sharing my problems. This helps them to relax and express themselves more easily and in more detail, which brings me to the other point I’m careful about: I leave words flow and thoughts unfold. I don’t time anything; things will take as long as they need.

EA: In short, what kind of sexuality are these testimonies free of norms portraying?
G. Bonnet: There are as many kinds of sexuality as there are people! I insist on this point because the idea is not to ‘replace’ one form of sexuality with another which, under the guise of being alternative, is actually just as policed and polished. If you prefer ‘traditional’ sexuality for your own reasons, and not due to societal pressure, then good for you, and please contact me because I will be just as interested in your experience. What matters to me is that all kinds of sexuality can be enjoyed equally.  

EA: Let’s put the question another way: what norms do you explore from one episode to another? 
G. Bonnet: A first example: why do we describe the person who penetrates as active and the person penetrated as passive? This lexicon is neither neutral nor even descriptive (because you can be highly active when you are penetrated). ‘Passive’ implies you are submissive, and thus a victim, humiliated, degraded, unproductive and worthless. In other words, it has a very negative connotation in our capitalistic, performance-driven society. I therefore try to use and encourage other words in my microphone: simply ‘penetrated’ and ‘penetrator’, which I feel have lost that pejorative, guilt-laden implication, and thus actively contribute to de-dramatizing and disinhibiting the practice they describe.

EA: And the second example?   
G. Bonnet: I’m struck by the frequency of domination and submission play in my guests’ practices, and by the way they approach this, in full contradiction of what these words evoke. A matter of vocabulary yet again! In fact, many BDSM fans explain that firstly, they are not looking to feel or inflict pain but to enter into a role play. In these scenarios, secondly, the power is in the hands of the decidedly inaptly-named ‘submissive’ partner, who defines the rules and limits, everything basically, including when to stop. I am of course talking about acts where there is no ambiguity in terms of the consent, free will and mental health of participants.

EA: One last example for the road?
G. Bonnet: I recently published an episode with Victor who gets his pleasure without erection or ejaculation, and constantly needs to reassure his partners, who are convinced they have failed to satisfy him due to the firm belief that pleasure must involve these factors - a perception upheld by the representations of sex our society feeds us with every day, particularly in films, series and pornography. 

EA: In fact, you raise issues which concern both men and women, homosexuals and heterosexuals...  
G. Bonnet: Exactly. I actually have an audience base of female heterosexuals who tell me just how universal a reach my work has. The norms I question are not only related to homophobia. They also relate to sexism and misogyny, and more broadly to the model of toxic masculinity, i.e. a form of masculinity which can only be expressed through the repression of any sign of fragility or emotion, and thus through strength, domination and in the worst cases, violence. Did you notice that? What I’ve just explained is once more a question of muzzling, gagging, silence and its ravages. What is a street harasser really but a man who hasn’t learnt to express his desire otherwise, both in another context (of consent) and in other terms (of respect)? Most women are victims of this, you only need to see the overwhelming proportion who claim to have suffered sexual, physical or verbal assault in their lifetime; but to a certain extent, so are many heterosexual men who do not identify with this behaviour and are mocked or even attacked if they attempt to embody a kinder, fairer attitude. The attitude I defend in my podcast. From this perspective, we can say the fights converge somewhat.

EA: Could we say your podcast plays an activist role?
G. Bonnet: I’m not looking to push an agenda or promote a cause. However, through its subversive nature and the comment it makes on our society, there is inevitably a political aspect to my approach. I’d describe it as ‘post#MeToo’. We have just experienced a vast and painful awakening. What do we do now? I’d like to contribute on my level to what comes next: an appeased world in which we can finally talk about sexuality in a positive way, and not through the prism of overcoming oppression or trauma. This is actually what my listeners tell me. Many say that if they’d had access to this podcast 10 or 20 years earlier, they would have saved a huge deal of time on their path to fulfilment.

EA: Are you able to assess the broader impact of your podcast?
G. Bonnet: I hear a lot of moving stories, from couples who listen to the episodes together to facilitate and nurture their discussions and thoughts on their own sexuality, or isolated people who have no-one close enough to share these subjects with and find both comfort and enlightenment in my accounts. A Swiss listener claimed I had changed his life and that my podcast marked a milestone for him. Without going that far, I understand what he wanted to say, albeit with somewhat excessive enthusiasm. In fact, I don’t know of any equivalent, of any other place where we discuss sexuality in this way. It’s unprecedented and transformative.

EA: Do you hope to ultimately reach a wider audience? 
G. Bonnet: In any case, I dream of expanding my listener community and developing more interactions with them. To this end, I opened a group on the Discord platform, managed and led by two volunteers, which already boasts 300 members, and where we continue and widen our discussions. I’m about to record a first episode before a live audience of around twenty people, who will be able to ask questions to a doctor and a sex therapist. I’m organising a first meeting between Paris-based listeners, just to exchange ideas, which was also initiated by two volunteers. In the medium term, I’d like to publish a sort of guide, a reference, to enable anyone to launch their own independent and self-managed discussion group, without the need for specific training or qualifications but along the principles of collective intelligence and organic growth. Ideally, we would see the emergence everywhere of ‘safe spaces’ for sexual fulfilment.  

EA: What other plans do you have for your podcast?  
G. Bonnet: I want to continue diversifying my guest profiles. I set up a questionnaire on my website to collect listeners’ suggestions. So far, I’ve chosen three ideas for themes that I haven’t explored yet. Firstly, asexuality, i.e. feeling little or no sexual attraction. Secondly, the sexual path of men over 60 - both what their generation experienced, especially during the AIDS years, and what becomes of their sexuality with age. Thirdly, masculine trans-identity and, once more, the issues it raises in sexual life.

EA: How can the ESSEC community support your activities?
G. Bonnet: Through funding firstly. This is a full-time activity for me, and I’ve been living off my savings so far. You can make a periodical or regular donation via the Tipeee platform. If 400 people donated 5 euros per month, as a kind of subscription, I could reach more or less a basic wage, which would provide me with a minimum of security. To date I have 73 contributors, to whom I am very grateful! I’m also looking for sponsors or advertisers. If you work for a company or NGO targeting an audience as specific as mine, don’t hesitate to contact me at: guillaumefaitdespodcasts@gmail.com. I’d additionally like to form partnerships with media sources, to share content, specialist articles in audio or video format, or simply to gain visibility. On that note, you can leave me a positive comment and 5 stars (not 4!) on all platforms hosting my podcast. 

Listen to: 
- the full interview
- the podcast Ma dernière séance de psychanalyse [My Last Psychoanalysis Session]
- the podcast Comment devenir (sexuellement) épanoui [How to become (Sexually) Fulfilled]
- the podcast Histoire de devenir moi [Becoming Me]
Make a donation at: Tipeee
Suggest a partnership or testimony at: guillaumefaitdespodcasts@gmail.com 
Find out more: https://linktr.ee/guillaumepodcasts 

Interview by Louis Armengaud Wurmser (E10), Content Manager at ESSEC Alumni 
Do you want more quality content about the ESSEC community? Join us now!