Pierre Fischer (E19) and Kieran Ferragu (E19), co-founders of Cellart, the wine space curators, have a common passion for wine. They explain how they discovered the unexpected potential of China’s vineyards in new interview on ESSEC Alumni's website.

ESSEC Alumni: How did you both get into wine?

Kieran Ferragu: When we were at ESSEC, we joined the Elyxir student society and went along to tastings and wine trips, and then went on a research trip to discover the Chinese vineyards, which resulted in a dissertation written under Prof. Xavier Pavie. We also visited 75 vineyards in Australia at the end of our course.

Pierre Fischer: This shared passion soon began to influence our ambitions. I completed both of my internships at Bollinger Diffusion, before moving on to Moët Hennessy in Brussels, while Kieran began his career at Sowine, the marketing and communications agency specialising in wine, co-founded by Sylvain Dadé (E97). 

EA: Why did you develop such an early interest in the Chinese wine industry?

Pierre Fischer: Not many people know that China is a winemaking country. What is written about Chinese wine tends to be unreliable, and Chinese vintners either don’t advertise much or do so poorly. We wanted to see what was really going on.

EA: How did you overcome these obstacles?

P. Fischer: The trip began in Hong Kong, where we met with Arnaud Bardary, head sommelier at the Black Sheep restaurants, Apolline Martin, marketing manager at Nimbilty, and Natalie Wang, a well-known journalist in the field.

K. Ferragu: Next, we headed to where the wine was made – to Yunnan, where some vineyards reach an altitude of 2000 m and where the vintners sometimes work in extreme conditions; to Ningxia, a desert region in central China that has become the Mecca of Chinese winemaking in just a few years, thanks to state incentives; and Shandong, a coastal province where winemakers compete in terms of creativity and scale, with some covering several thousand hectares.

P. Fischer: We were also fortunate to visit some very different vineyards, from Emma Gao, a highly respected vintner, to the colossal Changyu, which owns 8 châteaux in the country, and including Long Dai, the new feather in Lafite’s cap.

EA: What did you learn over the course of your research? 

P. Fischer: We were surprised at the incredibly warm welcome we received, and impressed by the technical know-how and expertise of the people we met.

K. Ferragu: Despite their tender age, a lot of winemakers demonstrate an amazing ability to learn, and place a lot of importance on understanding the soil and climate, and which grape varieties find their best expression in their soil. It’s amazing, even intimidating, to see such rapid progress!

EA: What are the characteristics of Chinese vineyards and terroirs? 

K. Ferragu: China sits precisely between the two latitudes where grapes can be grown. This favourable climate is accompanied by genuine ancestral expertise and a growing understanding of the idea of different terroirs. And so you find vineyards all over the country, all very different. In Yunnan, vineyards are broken up a lot due to the altitude, and they are often cultivated using traditional, peasant techniques. In Ningxia, grapes have only been grown for around 20 years, but the vineyards already occupy thousands of hectares. As for Shandong, it’s China’s leading winemaking region, accounting for 40% of national production.

EA: What relationship do Chinese consumers have with wine? 

Pierre Fischer: Wine is still not a very popular drink in China (1.5 litres per capita per year, on average), but it is gaining ground. The new generation, influenced by Western culture and more open to the world, is looking for an alternative to the rice alcohol that is still very popular with the oldest drinkers. The Chinese government’s active efforts to combat the ravages of Baijiu on peoples’ health also plays a major role in this evolution.

K. Ferragu: Another factor behind the change, again linked to public policy: 10 years ago, wine remained the reserve of the elites, served and offered as gifts to signal a certain social standing; but the anti-corruption campaign launched by Xi Jinping turned this on its head, and wine became more accessible, no longer the sole preserve of coastal cities, but reaching even second- and third-rate cities.

EA: What wines do the Chinese drink? 

P. Fischer: It depends on the drinkers. Chilean and Australian reds are certainly popular, but younger generations are very open-minded and are looking for good value for money more than anything else. The Chinese elite, increasingly expert, are still passionate about rare and expensive bottlings, and collect wines from all over the world.

EA: What does the future hold for the wine industry in China? 

K. Ferragu: In 20 years, China has demonstrated its ability to make progress, growing from a novice to a credible player on the winemaking scene. If it keeps up this pace, it should be a major player within the next five to ten years. The only current barriers we saw are knowledge of the terroir and the maturity of the vineyards, as the time-factor cannot be changed. Grapes don’t grow in a day, and it takes years or even decades to properly grasp the different terroirs and understand the cultivation of each grape variety.

EA: Can Chinese wine carve out a place on the international market? 

Pierre Fischer: There’s no doubting China’s ability to produce wines with the character of their local terroir and to export them all over the world; you can already find Chinese wines in some European wine cellars. There is, however, one caveat: Chinese wines are still very expensive to make due to the considerable climatic constraints (burying the vines in winter, irrigation, etc.). They still need to streamline costs if they want to compete with American or Australian wines, which are record-breaking when it comes to value for money.

EA: What about France? Are we ready to drink Chinese wine?

Pierre Fischer: We might be very reluctant! French consumers have a strong attachment to tradition and are very proud of their iconic winemaking heritage. You just need to think about how we still refuse to drink wine from a screw-top bottle, whereas in Australia that has become the norm...

EA: France also tends to regard Chinese investment in French vineyards with a wary eye...  

K. Ferragu: It’s true that an increasing number of Chinese investors are buying French vineyards, but they often do so more out of passion than for financial reasons. Many bring with them the necessary funds to restructure a vineyard in difficulty and secure a future for its expertise. The same can’t be said for certain French investors... When a major French group acquires an iconic vineyard, it’s more about its image than it is any kind of love for the product or desire to save a terroir.

EA: Wine as a passion rather than a financial investment: is that a vision that is shared by Cellart’s services? 

Pierre Fischer: Indeed, our services are aimed at wine-lovers who want to create a wine cellar that matches their personality, with star wines and unusual bottlings, but who don’t have the time. We provide them with bespoke support every step of the way and throughout the year, based on their consumer profile. We maintain a close relationship with our clients, exactly as we do with the winemakers in our selection. Our guiding principle is simply a love of wine.

EA: Do you recommend Chinese wines to your customers? 

Pierre Fischer: For the time being, we are focusing our efforts and resources on French vineyards – mainly for logistical reasons. But Chinese wines could soon be joining our selection. We are already in discussions with our contacts in China, who are very enthusiastic. We really enjoyed discovering Chinese wine, so it’s only natural that we’d want to share the experience.

Interview by Louis Armengaud Wurmser (E10), ESSEC Alumni Content Manager

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